Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional
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@iTap-Development I want the attached object to work as if it's "screwed" onto the roof of the vehicle.
Like a light bar on a police car, or an antenna on a motorcycle.
I want to be able to swap out these parts interchangeably, or remove them altogether.
If they are there, they need to act as if they are one with the vehicle, like they do in real life.
The fact that weld attach is described to do this and doesn't is what my complaint was about.
I do believe no one has addressed the collisions complaint, but I could very well just be blind, too.
@Thecheater887 I think weld works, except it might kinda wobble, but I haven’t used it in a long time.
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@Thecheater887 I think weld works, except it might kinda wobble, but I haven’t used it in a long time.
@iTap-Development False.
This is something you might see in a frictionless magical dimension, not a realistic one.
It's even worse when you try to precisely control the vehicles movements.
Move to objects don't help, set velocity and rotate is always off, and then there's this.
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@Thecheater887 I think weld works, except it might kinda wobble, but I haven’t used it in a long time.
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
I think weld works, except it might kinda wobble,
This is the exact definition of a weld that doesn't work.
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@Deeeds damping effectively reduces the speed/force of a decompressing spring, right?
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
damping effectively reduces the speed/force of a decompressing spring, right?
keep googling and reading. You'll get there...
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@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
I think weld works, except it might kinda wobble,
This is the exact definition of a weld that doesn't work.
@Deeeds I just tried a weld...I thought they had a very slight wobble, but it actually works perfect.
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@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
damping effectively reduces the speed/force of a decompressing spring, right?
keep googling and reading. You'll get there...
@Deeeds maybe you could define/explain damping then?
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@Deeeds maybe you could define/explain damping then?
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@Deeeds maybe you could define/explain damping then?
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@iTap-Development I have. In our last discussion on this matter. You weren't listening then, you aren't now.
@Deeeds I am listening, that’s why I asked.
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@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produces.
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
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@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produces.
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produces.
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
@iTap-Development It's clear you've learnt something since last time, and attempting to paint yourself as having been right and being right.
Give up on that. Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".
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Can we not?
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Can we not?
@Thecheater887 Joints are broken.
Helping one person to see that might help all to understand this to be the case.
It's not just the joints and collisions you're discussing that have issues. I've not yet seen a joint in hyperPad respond the way it should and could if it was a correctly implemented utilisation of Chipmunk2D. And there's other peculiar stuff, too. Friction works more efficiently than it should, or traditionally does in Chipmunk2D. Which is even weirder than anything else about the whole setup, and something I'm exploiting.
I'm pretty sure that the values used for error correction and bias in the constraints parent class are "wrong" for the rest of the values used in the hyperPad Chipmunk space setup. This would go a long ways to explaining how the rope behaves weirdly, and somewhat explain the misbehaviour of the spring "joint".
But the spring joint has other problems, too.
The fact that weld and pivot don't work properly is explained by what @Hamed has said he's doing to fake air resistance in Chipmunk. That's causing that lag you're seeing on objects that still have friction and mass, I think. My circumvention of this problem was the complete zeroing of mass and friction for the attached objects and then using them as placeholders for what I actually wanted to do with a proper pin and weld joint.
A limiting mess.
I can't work around the problems in the Spring and Rope setup, so made horrible fake lerps with Move To... but, as I've said before, I haven't had a chance to identify all the issues and detective the problems with physics.
And I no longer need do that, as @Hamed's comments confirmed a suspicion I had, that some things were fundamentally wrong with how Chipmunk was being utilised.
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@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produces.
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
@iTap-Development It's clear you've learnt something since last time, and attempting to paint yourself as having been right and being right.
Give up on that. Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".
@Deeeds said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produc
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
@iTap-Development It's clear you've learnt something since last time, and attempting to paint yourself as having been right and being right.
Give up on that. Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".
I have not learned anything, I haven’t looked at the link you sent, and I didn’t ride a bike(although I’ve been riding atv’s and side by sides since I was like 6, and yes I’ve played with the suspention lol). I guess I wasn’t making myself clear.
You said, “Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".”
I didn’t divert to effect! Effect is what I mention in the first place.......“damping effectively reduces the speed/force of a decompressing spring, right?”.
As for them working fine, did you even look at the project I sent? Pivots and springs work normal in it.
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@iTap-Development I'm now absolutely convinced you have no idea how damping works, or what it is.
Read here:
https://blurrrsdk.com/documentation/Chipmunk2D/interface_chipmunk_damped_spring.html
Then ride a bike with suspension.
Then press down on the bonnet of a car and let it spring back. Notice what happens.
@Deeeds said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@iTap-Development I'm now absolutely convinced you have no idea how damping works, or what it is.
Read here:
https://blurrrsdk.com/documentation/Chipmunk2D/interface_chipmunk_damped_spring.html
Then ride a bike with suspension.
Then press down on the bonnet of a car and let it spring back. Notice what happens.
It appears more like you are trying to paint yourself as being right, since here you said you were “absolutely convinced I had no idea how damping works, or what it is” and now you say “It's clear you've learnt something since last time”. I know I’m not an expert in this area, but apparently I have at least a limited understanding.
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@Deeeds said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@Deeeds you said, “That's not how damping works.
As I said, damping is the force that reduces oscillation. If it was a force coming back from the other object it would (at the very least) sustain oscillations, if not increase them in the perfectness of a physics simulation.”
So explain how it reduces oscillation, and the effect that produc
And I’m not saying it’s a force pushing back the other way, What I mean is more of an effect of restricting the decompressing of the spring.
@iTap-Development It's clear you've learnt something since last time, and attempting to paint yourself as having been right and being right.
Give up on that. Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".
I have not learned anything, I haven’t looked at the link you sent, and I didn’t ride a bike(although I’ve been riding atv’s and side by sides since I was like 6, and yes I’ve played with the suspention lol). I guess I wasn’t making myself clear.
You said, “Particularly the bold endeavour to divert to discussion of "effect" as though that's going to somehow obscure your previous claims of these joints being "fine".”
I didn’t divert to effect! Effect is what I mention in the first place.......“damping effectively reduces the speed/force of a decompressing spring, right?”.
As for them working fine, did you even look at the project I sent? Pivots and springs work normal in it.
@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
Pivots and springs work normal in it.
Normal being what, exactly?
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@iTap-Development said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
Pivots and springs work normal in it.
Normal being what, exactly?
@Deeeds normal is defined as,
Sorry, I should have used a more common, understandable word......
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@Deeeds said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
@iTap-Development I'm now absolutely convinced you have no idea how damping works, or what it is.
Read here:
https://blurrrsdk.com/documentation/Chipmunk2D/interface_chipmunk_damped_spring.html
Then ride a bike with suspension.
Then press down on the bonnet of a car and let it spring back. Notice what happens.
It appears more like you are trying to paint yourself as being right, since here you said you were “absolutely convinced I had no idea how damping works, or what it is” and now you say “It's clear you've learnt something since last time”. I know I’m not an expert in this area, but apparently I have at least a limited understanding.
@iTap-Development Your original claims, and the ones I'm taking issue with, are that spring joints and pivots are working fine, and your new claim that they're normal. They're not fine, not normal, and their issues are indicative of the problems the OP is suffering, and of a fundamental problem in how physics operate within hyperPad.
@Thecheater887 is having real problems with the physics system. Symptoms of the problems that cause these issues permeate through all of the joints in the system in different ways. Springs are the best indicator because they're more than the other joints (not really joints/constraints) and have a couple of glaring issues.
One of them is damping. Damping, ironically, is the only part of a spring joint/constraint that can be considered a joint/constraint.
Just because you're not noticing and/or unaware of what these issues are doesn't mean anything is fine, or normal, or that spring joints or pivot joints or any other specific thing is working as it should. They aren't.
The pivot joints, by way of exact example, exactly mimic the problems @Thecheater887 is seeing with weld joints because they share the same assumption: that they'll provide a fixed location of a rigid connection between two bodies. Yet neither of them provide this.
Just because you haven't noticed this doesn't mean that pivot joints are fine, or normal.
Pivots and springs work normal in it.
Wrong.
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Yes, misfunctional. It's not necessarily a malfunction..
ANYWAYS.. I believe me and @Murtaza discussed this back on the gamepressforums, but as that's not still a thing, I'll have to repost since I can't go back to look.
If I have a standard sprite for a, say, car (bad practice, I know), and I want to attach, say, antennas to the top. Easy, right?
Wrong!
When the car drives, the antennas are usually about 2 frames behind it. On top of that, it takes them a minute to "catch up" to the car. They keep teleporting a short distance away, then back.
This is issue 1, which I believe was deemed a picnic and not a bug.
Collisions, though, play havoc with the physics engine. For whatever reason, areodynamics are potato, causeing non-rectangle or circle objects to spaz and jerk in usually one direction. I'm assuming this is because of the uneven collisions and Air Force (resistance?), yet we have no way to fix this, especially if it isn't.
@Thecheater887 said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
Collisions, though, play havoc with the physics engine. For whatever reason, areodynamics are potato, causeing non-rectangle or circle objects to spaz and jerk in usually one direction. I'm assuming this is because of the uneven collisions and Air Force (resistance?), yet we have no way to fix this, especially if it isn't.
Do you have joints connecting any of these bodies to any of the other bodies?
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@iTap-Development Your original claims, and the ones I'm taking issue with, are that spring joints and pivots are working fine, and your new claim that they're normal. They're not fine, not normal, and their issues are indicative of the problems the OP is suffering, and of a fundamental problem in how physics operate within hyperPad.
@Thecheater887 is having real problems with the physics system. Symptoms of the problems that cause these issues permeate through all of the joints in the system in different ways. Springs are the best indicator because they're more than the other joints (not really joints/constraints) and have a couple of glaring issues.
One of them is damping. Damping, ironically, is the only part of a spring joint/constraint that can be considered a joint/constraint.
Just because you're not noticing and/or unaware of what these issues are doesn't mean anything is fine, or normal, or that spring joints or pivot joints or any other specific thing is working as it should. They aren't.
The pivot joints, by way of exact example, exactly mimic the problems @Thecheater887 is seeing with weld joints because they share the same assumption: that they'll provide a fixed location of a rigid connection between two bodies. Yet neither of them provide this.
Just because you haven't noticed this doesn't mean that pivot joints are fine, or normal.
Pivots and springs work normal in it.
Wrong.
@Deeeds said in Attached Objects & Collisions Misfunctional:
Pivots and springs work normal in it.
Wrong.
Did you look at the project? And if you did, you would see they work fine, normal, correctly, and any other word you would like.
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