Collide on different layers?



  • Objects on different layers will not interact?
    I have my character on Main layer and the background grid blocks on the Background layer. The character behaviour is: if collided with a particular block on the Background layer then destroy the main character. It does not work ... why?
    If I put them both on the same layer then the behaviour works and the character gets destroyed when collision occurs.

    If the behaviours are set on the main character nothing happened, if the behaviours are set on the grid block still not working (character & blocks on different layers).

    Why is that? Then why my control pads (joystick) is able to control the character given they are on completely different layers?

    Why are the behaviours not propagating to the entire environment? Any suggestions?
    Thanks!



  • That's what layers are for, they are supposed to make it so that objects across layers don't really interact. If you want them to collide, then use the Set Z Layer behaviour to change what objects are on top of each other.



  • @Aidan-Oxley Move to Layer behaviour, Z layers don't affect collisions.



  • I know, CAnesia's problem was that moving objects across layers causes them to ignore each other's collisions, I suggested (or meant to) that you put them all on the same layer and they use set z layer to decide which objects appear on top


  • Admin

    Yup as @Aidan-Oxley mentioned, this is the intended effect.
    Layers are designed to separate your objects so they don't directly interact with each other. IF they did collide, then you wouldn't be able to create a scene with a detailed background. It would be very difficult... (I guess you could if you turn off collisions... but that's weird).

    If you want a layered effect, you can use the Z order instead (See the manual: https://hyperpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202466975-Layers and https://hyperpad.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201708469-Transform)
    The Z-Order will position an object in front or behind another while keeping it on the same layer.



  • @Aidan-Oxley oh, that makes sense too



  • Thanks for the inputs guys!
    I am aware of all the other options I could use like the Z order or Move to layer but those were not my intent from the beginning.
    I am looking (using) at Layer capabilities from a level design perspective, meaning I organize different objects/setup of the scene on layers so I can hide and work on the setups individually.

    @Murtaza why would you limit behaviours on the programming side while is the user option to add them or not to their objects? While the joistick behaviour will work regardless the character layer. As a matter a fact since the joystick worked like that I just continued to work on my scenes taking as granted that behaviours would work as they should (why they would not).

    Assuming most of you guys are familiar with graphics or image editing tools, all of them would have Layer function as a basic tool, would be a lot of troubles if they would not right? Same thing here: use layers to organize and work out your scenes in detail but keep the objects behaviours alive. How would A Graphic Tool be if you can have 1000 layers containing only Grey Shades but only ONE (1) layer capable to display COLORS?

    Well is not a big deal at the end but at one point it would be (at least for me) ...
    Would like to debate further if needed. Enjoy!


  • Admin

    We don't limit behaviours with layers. You can control, or do what ever to objects on other layers. You just can't collide with them. For example, you can use change colour and change the colour of an object on another layer.
    The only limitation is collisions.

    There are a few reasons for this.

    1. By separating the collisions into other layers, we can make performance enhancements by not having to do the extra calculations
    2. It simplifies A LOT of things. In more cases you don't want to collide with other layers. So users would have to go out of their way to make every thing scenery objects, or disable collision.
    3. When we add layer effects like parallax layers, colliding between layers would totally screw every thing up.

    You can't think of layers in hyperPad the same as layers in a graphics applications.. Yes they are very similar, but in a real time physics and graphics engine you're dealing with a lot more possible variables. With something like photoshop, there is no collision system to deal with, no logic to deal with, no potential user error to handle.

    With creating games and interactive content, you sometimes have to think a little differently when approaching certain topics. While you can apply a lot of concepts from tools like photoshop sometimes you need to work around the weird parts that make games come to life.



  • @Murtaza
    Fair enough and thanks for the explains ... There are always workarounds ;).
    Well now I know and not forget how to use Layers in hyperPad.



  • @CAnesia

    I've used layers in many different ways before. Personally, I really like the layer possibilities that Hyperpad offers.

    For example, I have mapped out level creators by organizing into different layers according to collision effects when the user drags onto the screen.

    Everything can work out in different ways. Depending on what you're doing it can be good or bad!

    @Murtaza

    In the future, can we have options for these sort of things.
    For example: "Would you like collisions to be applicable to layers?"

    Or, even better, can we be offered the chance to reprogram the level editor for organization and to make the editor easier to use for our type of project. This would be hard with the hub and exporting to the App Store, but it's a thought, right?


  • Admin

    @CAnesia
    Keep in mind this is how most other platforms work as well. Collisions between layers just doesn't work right and causes more head aches than you expect.

    @GameCRAZY
    No... that's to big of a change to the underlying system and it will break a lot of other things.

    By creating certain limitations it makes the entire platform more stable.

    As for making the editor more customizable.... no again. We can hardly keep up with documentation as it is. Doing this is huge amount of overhead that will benefit a very small amount of people. It just doesn't fit with our goal with HyperPad. We're open to making the editor more robust, but making it customizable to suit your specific needs we just can't do. That's like creating another HyperPad to modify HyperPad ;).

    Also keep in mind we don't have unlimited resources. Right now only @Hamed is developing the platform alone ( I don't do any of the programming), and HyperPad loses money every month. So we can't take on huge major changes if it doesn't benefit the entire community. Any thing we do has to be useful for the majority of existing users, and draw in new users.



  • @GameCRAZY thanks for the advices, regarding the topic in what concerns me I already fixed my scene accordingly and moved on ...

    @Murtaza sorry to see you guys struggling to maintain and grow hyperPad. I often read requests to modify this or that an you (the team) keep saying "pass", I've been with GamePress since beginning and at one point just put it aside due to "bugs" and kept following and trying hyperPad. While I see the base of hP improved I could notice side work like the nice integration of the hub/forum/etc. A month ago I came back to hP and played around to see limitations and decide if it worth or not ... been happy to see that it totally worth, more than that to speed my workflow and to be FairPlay to the platform I bought a Pro 12.9" (had an iPad 2) so hP will better get stable and bugs free not cluttered with tiny useless improvements for 90% of users.

    Congrats to you and hats off to Hamed for the effort and hP ! Will not get abandoned right?

    So why hP does not blossom? And why the big price tag for the full version?


  • Admin

    @CAnesia
    We're on a bit of a tangent right now...

    But, you should't worry about us abandoning hyperPad. If that was even something we'd consider doing we would have done it a few years ago when we shut down GamePress. But we love what we've built, and we love seeing the community build stuff.

    Now when you say we're struggling to grow.. That's not necessarily true. There is a lot you can't see. For example, the vocal part of the community (hub, and forum) are not used by the vast majority of our users (maybe 5%).

    Also, we're choosing to take things slower with the hyperPad community. Our aim is not to grow fast. We did that with GamePress and it was a failure. GamePress grew to hundreds of thousands of users with tens of thousands of active users. But as you may have noticed, the community kind of sucked. The Arcade was filled with random nonsense, users were not really helpful, and it just didn't feel like a good place to be.
    With hyperPad, we're taking things slow, focusing on making sure we have the best small community. Then gradually grow that. As new user come they can see the awesome community and try to join it and continue to make it better. We want you early users to be the inspiration for the next...
    And this is working! New users sign up, sometimes share their early attempts. Get great feedback, and other awesome users help them improve. Then their next submissions are a lot better!

    Going back to saying there is a lot you can't see: hyperPads largest user base is in education. Schools and students LOVE us. We're taking on much bigger companies in the education market. Students would rather use us than the competition, teachers love that we can teach the fundamentals of computer science with out them having to get a PHD in computer science them self ;).

    As for pricing, well this is a pretty big debate. The "full" version of hyperPad is 5 dollars. That's a steal. Infact our investors, and other "business" people keep telling us to charge A LOT more. The "Developer" tier, is comparable to the competition. If you're serious enough to want to export then 10 dollars a month is not that much money. Especially considering there are other fees associated with being an app developer. Also most of our users don't want the top tier. As much as they say they do.

    Once again, don't worry about us leaving hyperPad. We're constantly updating, adding awesome new features. For us, money is not that important, we want to make an awesome product and an awesome community.



  • @Murtaza Glad to hear that!
    Sure, hyperPad strongly worth more than 5 or 10 but I was not referring to those chips, I meant the fully fledged lifetime tier (let's keep it for another time, kinda busy with hyperPad now!)

    Salut! to the team and have a great weekend.


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