Loaded Scenes Misbehave
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When loading Scenes from another scene, either preloaded or simply loaded, the loaded scene doesn't play correctly.
Correctly is the manner in which the scene loads and plays when launched directly from within the editor. I expect that this would be the same when loading from another scene. It is not.
There are so many ways this influences the loaded scene that I can't track down any exact thing. But here's some of them:
Timers of very short time aren't firing correctly in the loaded scene, even if I put a delay on their starting. Only part of their functionality is operational. This is very noticeable because I'm using one for a camera.
Conditionals underneath timers aren't necessarily being utilised. I have two different whole branches that are never getting called in the loaded scene, but get called every single frame when the scene is loaded directly from the editor.
Another branch of under the same timer is working. Which only makes this weirder.
If I duplicate a scene, and then put a loader in the original, to load the duplicate, the original plays correctly, the loaded duplicate, with NOTHING changed, has these failings.
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When loading Scenes from another scene, either preloaded or simply loaded, the loaded scene doesn't play correctly.
Correctly is the manner in which the scene loads and plays when launched directly from within the editor. I expect that this would be the same when loading from another scene. It is not.
There are so many ways this influences the loaded scene that I can't track down any exact thing. But here's some of them:
Timers of very short time aren't firing correctly in the loaded scene, even if I put a delay on their starting. Only part of their functionality is operational. This is very noticeable because I'm using one for a camera.
Conditionals underneath timers aren't necessarily being utilised. I have two different whole branches that are never getting called in the loaded scene, but get called every single frame when the scene is loaded directly from the editor.
Another branch of under the same timer is working. Which only makes this weirder.
If I duplicate a scene, and then put a loader in the original, to load the duplicate, the original plays correctly, the loaded duplicate, with NOTHING changed, has these failings.
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This bug might be related:
https://forum.hyperpad.com/topic/766/else-if-seems-broken-in-the-latest-ios-11-beta
No longer using iOS beta, everyone on the latest iOS is using 11.2
Version 11.2 = 15C114
There is no newer beta.
@Deeeds I don’t get it, I have projects with scene loading and the scene loaded works fine. Is there any chance you can re create it in a test project or something to link it, or at least list some steps to how to make it?
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@Deeeds I don’t get it, I have projects with scene loading and the scene loaded works fine. Is there any chance you can re create it in a test project or something to link it, or at least list some steps to how to make it?
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@Deeeds I’ll go try that right now... Will just edit one of my projects to constantly move the screen to the position of the player.
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@Deeeds I’ll go try that right now... Will just edit one of my projects to constantly move the screen to the position of the player.
@Aidan-Oxley That's probably not going to be enough.
I have a camera "lerping" setup that's quite particular.
It has several conditionals within it, all running on a 0.01666666
Those conditionals aren't working in the duplicate (and loaded) scenes. But they work just fine in each when played directly from the editor. It's only loading them that causes the conditionals to stop working.
Those conditionals do things like get, check and then set the distance from the hero and the zoom level appropriate to the current speed of movement and distance from edge of screen.
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@Aidan-Oxley That's probably not going to be enough.
I have a camera "lerping" setup that's quite particular.
It has several conditionals within it, all running on a 0.01666666
Those conditionals aren't working in the duplicate (and loaded) scenes. But they work just fine in each when played directly from the editor. It's only loading them that causes the conditionals to stop working.
Those conditionals do things like get, check and then set the distance from the hero and the zoom level appropriate to the current speed of movement and distance from edge of screen.
@Deeeds You’re right, no difference at all between loading a scene through behaviours and loading from editor. Can you try recreate it in a test project, and if you can get the bug to work, then give the test project link.
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@Deeeds You’re right, no difference at all between loading a scene through behaviours and loading from editor. Can you try recreate it in a test project, and if you can get the bug to work, then give the test project link.
@Aidan-Oxley No. I don't have time to do this for every bug i come across in hyperPad.
I've already spent a couple of hours narrowing this down to where I've found the problem to be. The final one of those was creating a duplicate that didn't perform the same as itself when loading "its self" in that duplicate form.
I've got no choice, having had that experience, but to see that this is a bug that I can do nothing about. I simply must work around it... which means not using scenes, instead I must create arrays of positions for my levels and use one single scene to create new levels so that my camera rig works as desired.
In my brief time using this app I've already pointed out more bugs than all other users seem to have, combined. And provided exact code and links to articulations on the problems of cocos2D that cause the biggest problems.
Yet there is no beta update with any of these modifications, and I've not even heard a rumour of anything other than an update AFTER THE HOLIDAYS!!!???
For an app that crashes on startup, every single time!
This kind of glacial updating cycle leads me to believe I'd be wasting my time doing more than isolating a bug to my own satisfaction (proving that I can't get it to stop happening), and then working around it.
So why should I spend my time further isolating and demonstrating what I already have satisfied myself is yet another bug that I must work around, and that there's no chance of a fix for at least two months? IF AT ALL!
Some of the bugs I've pointed out have been known about for YEARS!
I have already begun work on working around this bug, too.
And I've become so accustomed to finding bugs and working around them, and finding features broken and working around them, that it's now routine.
If you can convince me the "devs" (there is only one) are responsive and get to bugs and release updates in a timely manner, I might consider that. But I see zero evidence of that, and much to the contrary.
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@Aidan-Oxley No. I don't have time to do this for every bug i come across in hyperPad.
I've already spent a couple of hours narrowing this down to where I've found the problem to be. The final one of those was creating a duplicate that didn't perform the same as itself when loading "its self" in that duplicate form.
I've got no choice, having had that experience, but to see that this is a bug that I can do nothing about. I simply must work around it... which means not using scenes, instead I must create arrays of positions for my levels and use one single scene to create new levels so that my camera rig works as desired.
In my brief time using this app I've already pointed out more bugs than all other users seem to have, combined. And provided exact code and links to articulations on the problems of cocos2D that cause the biggest problems.
Yet there is no beta update with any of these modifications, and I've not even heard a rumour of anything other than an update AFTER THE HOLIDAYS!!!???
For an app that crashes on startup, every single time!
This kind of glacial updating cycle leads me to believe I'd be wasting my time doing more than isolating a bug to my own satisfaction (proving that I can't get it to stop happening), and then working around it.
So why should I spend my time further isolating and demonstrating what I already have satisfied myself is yet another bug that I must work around, and that there's no chance of a fix for at least two months? IF AT ALL!
Some of the bugs I've pointed out have been known about for YEARS!
I have already begun work on working around this bug, too.
And I've become so accustomed to finding bugs and working around them, and finding features broken and working around them, that it's now routine.
If you can convince me the "devs" (there is only one) are responsive and get to bugs and release updates in a timely manner, I might consider that. But I see zero evidence of that, and much to the contrary.
@Aidan-Oxley Quite frankly, I'd happily pay more than 100x what I'm paying for a fully working (as described on the tin) version of hyperPad.
My time is of more value to me than these amounts of money.
Chipmunk and cocos2D, when working properly, offer unique benefits, as does instant, iterative testing and development on an iPad.
Those benefits, however, are being heavily offset by the negatives of hyperPad.
Working around bugs is infuriating at the best of times. This isn't that, they're far more time consuming than normal because nobody has bothered to list all the different gotchas and issues with this app... and they're many, and legion.
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@Aidan-Oxley Quite frankly, I'd happily pay more than 100x what I'm paying for a fully working (as described on the tin) version of hyperPad.
My time is of more value to me than these amounts of money.
Chipmunk and cocos2D, when working properly, offer unique benefits, as does instant, iterative testing and development on an iPad.
Those benefits, however, are being heavily offset by the negatives of hyperPad.
Working around bugs is infuriating at the best of times. This isn't that, they're far more time consuming than normal because nobody has bothered to list all the different gotchas and issues with this app... and they're many, and legion.
@Deeeds If you can’t reproduce the bug you’re talking about, and others can’t either, then the bug report will most likely be ignored by devs (most of your bug reports probably do) because they don’t know wats happening. You keep complaining about how bad hyperPad is, yet you refuse to leave and find another game making app. Also, it probably takes you longer to write your walls of text than to recreate a bug. You already know hyperPad have a small team, you can’t expect them to release updates fast, especially if they try to fix ALLLLL the bug reports you’ve posted that no one can reproduce.
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@Deeeds If you can’t reproduce the bug you’re talking about, and others can’t either, then the bug report will most likely be ignored by devs (most of your bug reports probably do) because they don’t know wats happening. You keep complaining about how bad hyperPad is, yet you refuse to leave and find another game making app. Also, it probably takes you longer to write your walls of text than to recreate a bug. You already know hyperPad have a small team, you can’t expect them to release updates fast, especially if they try to fix ALLLLL the bug reports you’ve posted that no one can reproduce.
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@Deeeds If you can’t reproduce the bug you’re talking about, and others can’t either, then the bug report will most likely be ignored by devs (most of your bug reports probably do) because they don’t know wats happening. You keep complaining about how bad hyperPad is, yet you refuse to leave and find another game making app. Also, it probably takes you longer to write your walls of text than to recreate a bug. You already know hyperPad have a small team, you can’t expect them to release updates fast, especially if they try to fix ALLLLL the bug reports you’ve posted that no one can reproduce.
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@Aidan-Oxley
you can’t expect them to release updates fast,
I have the exact opposite expectation, and that’s exactly one of the reasons I’m not going to waste more of my time isolating a bug…
@Deeeds Theres only 1 dev that I know of (Hamed), how could expect them to be really fast releasing updates if hyperPad isn’t even their primary income source? Idk about you, but Hamed definitely does not have the time to try to isolate bugs that you report.
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@Deeeds Theres only 1 dev that I know of (Hamed), how could expect them to be really fast releasing updates if hyperPad isn’t even their primary income source? Idk about you, but Hamed definitely does not have the time to try to isolate bugs that you report.
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@Aidan-Oxley REREAD!!
i specifically said that I don't expect the dev to be fast.
And yes, I know it's one.
I'm the one that first picked you up on always referring to the one as 'devs', plural.
@Aidan-Oxley I'm also the one that speculated the one dev has more than one job.
You keep complaining about how bad hyperPad is
Let me help you understand. There’s a difference between complaints and observations, critique, commentary and reporting. Most of what I do probably falls into observations and critique, some of it is attempts at commentary and a little is like this original post, reporting my experiences, observations and insights.
I am under no obligation to be sycophantic. Neither are you. That you choose to be… that’s on you.
In simpler terms: I’m not complaining, I’m pointing out what’s wrong. If you don’t know the difference, look up the word critique, read a few movie reviews, watch a few episodes of Zero Punctuation and generally expose yourself to the rest of culture. Anywhere sycophancy isn’t expected or practised as a norm.
Devs aren’t gods or priests, but they do tend to have an idea what problems exist in their code, and can sometimes discern when a symptom is a result of one of those problems. Oftentimes, just reporting unusual experiences and what a symptom does is enough for the shrewd and wise dev to know where to look for the source of the problem. It is likely (common) that its the cause of many similarly symptomatic behavioural issues stemming from that point of pain. More than likely, a known pain point.
If you'd ever worked with lots of devs (and I have) then you'd know about this retention of bugs, problems and pain points and how they go unaddressed for as long as possible. The smaller the team, the more likely the dev knows what they are.
Speaking of behaviour... the one dev has not acknowledged my more thorough investigations, discoveries and research into FAR more serious problems within hyperPad.
You’ve had the stones to talk about prioritising the activities of HyperPad’s dev, many times. Permit me, for a moment, to be so bold:
There are memory leaks and performance issues caused by the core of Cocos2d that throw symptoms and stalls, stutters and heat. This flatten batteries and prevents resting of rendering and the game loop, such as it is. This slows every single aspect of using HyperPad because the editors use this to render themselves, and also stalls and causes issues with saving user changes. It causes, quite literally, the system to thrash itself.
Thats a bug that’s of general concern and should be of very high priority. And it’s been at the core of hyperPad since they switched to cocos2D. Yet they’ve done NOTHING about it, instead making their own lives more difficult by trying to pretend it doesn’t exist.
These are the things I’ve taken the time to research... you can find them here. You’ve probably seen them. I’ve gone far beyond isolating and proven the problem, I’ve shown them how to fix it, and another couple of major issues, in quite exact ways.
What have I heard in response?
Crickets.
When’s the expected update?
There isn’t one.
Why should I commit more of my time to solving problems for people I don’t know that ignore my sincere and profound effort and worthwhile contributions to their greater cause and the lives of their users?
Why… when I have to work around these bugs ANYWAY, regardless of how much time I spend on quantifying and qualifying their bugs?
And the dev is spectacular in his unresponsiveness and his brother (and you) spend all your time communicating with me in defending the status quo.
Why would I?
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@Deeeds Theres only 1 dev that I know of (Hamed), how could expect them to be really fast releasing updates if hyperPad isn’t even their primary income source? Idk about you, but Hamed definitely does not have the time to try to isolate bugs that you report.
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We haven't got to dive deep into this bug just yet. We'll look into it in the next few days hopefully.
Our "quick" tests were not able to reproduce this. Obviously more time is needed on this one.Regarding release cycles:
Typically we like to do 3 months for major releases which include new features.For bug fixes it's normally few weeks.
Right now we're a bit behind because we're working on some things with the education sector. With hour of code coming up we're a bit split between education and everyone else.
Additionally we're doing some server changes to reduce costs on our end.
Both of these things sort of happened at once and is delaying the actual release of bug fixes.As stated else where on this forum, we're hoping to have an update out shortly after the holidays. If this isn't good enough for you. I'm sorry. But that's the timing as of now.
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We haven't got to dive deep into this bug just yet. We'll look into it in the next few days hopefully.
Our "quick" tests were not able to reproduce this. Obviously more time is needed on this one.Regarding release cycles:
Typically we like to do 3 months for major releases which include new features.For bug fixes it's normally few weeks.
Right now we're a bit behind because we're working on some things with the education sector. With hour of code coming up we're a bit split between education and everyone else.
Additionally we're doing some server changes to reduce costs on our end.
Both of these things sort of happened at once and is delaying the actual release of bug fixes.As stated else where on this forum, we're hoping to have an update out shortly after the holidays. If this isn't good enough for you. I'm sorry. But that's the timing as of now.
Permit me to make a suggestion.
Put this Scene duplication bug on the back burner whilst cocos2D's rendering and game loop isn't fixed, and it's not possible to make sprite animations.
The sprite issues can't be worked around because image swap is heavy and has no transitions, and instantly breakable when wanting to make changes.
Frankly, sprite sequence importing is best, if you have a packer in your engine that packs them at all effectively/efficiently. And I don't mean worry about every last pixel, just in terms of putting the images from a given sequence on the same sheet so there's no swapping going on.
Do this for me, and I'll write a couple of little pieces for new users on how to make and export sprite sequences from all the major iOS and PC/Mac design apps, and then how to best use them in hyperPad and game design. And maybe even provide some of my tech influenced sequences as AE and Photoshop files for them to play with and learn from.
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@Aidan-Oxley REREAD!!
i specifically said that I don't expect the dev to be fast.
And yes, I know it's one.
I'm the one that first picked you up on always referring to the one as 'devs', plural.
@Deeeds said in Loaded Scenes Misbehave:
@Aidan-Oxley REREAD!!
i specifically said that I don't expect the dev to be fast.
And yes, I know it's one.
I'm the one that first picked you up on always referring to the one as 'devs', plural.
I re-read, and found this.....
@Deeeds said in Loaded Scenes Misbehave:
@Aidan-Oxley
you can’t expect them to release updates fast,
I have the exact opposite expectation, and that’s exactly one of the reasons I’m not going to waste more of my time isolating a bug…
Oops.....
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@Deeeds said in Loaded Scenes Misbehave:
@Aidan-Oxley REREAD!!
i specifically said that I don't expect the dev to be fast.
And yes, I know it's one.
I'm the one that first picked you up on always referring to the one as 'devs', plural.
I re-read, and found this.....
@Deeeds said in Loaded Scenes Misbehave:
@Aidan-Oxley
you can’t expect them to release updates fast,
I have the exact opposite expectation, and that’s exactly one of the reasons I’m not going to waste more of my time isolating a bug…
Oops.....
You'll need to reread it, again.
It appears you haven't understood what it means.
No surprises there.
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